Alex: So how did Stonewall come to be?

Director: I had been working in Substance Abuse counseling in the gay community for a long time and did what used to the norm which is kind of generic one size fits all groups and stuff and it was really clear to me that it didn't make any sense to have someone with a drinking problem, someone who had a problem with crystal and someone who had a problem with coke...all in the same group trying to kind of act as if it was all the same thing. The other thing I had been running operation recovery which was a substance abuse treatment program for LGBT folks and it was real clear to me that the number one drug, and this was back in the early 90s even, was crystal meth and that there really ought to be a program that was focused specifically on that.

Alex: What was the project called?

Director: Operation Recovery, but it doesn't exist anymore. It was the substance abuse treatment program of operation concern, which doesn't exist anymore either. Operation Concern and 18th Street services merged and that created New Leaf so I was there before the merger. So when I was looking around after the merger as to what I was going to do next I decided that what I wanted to do next was start a project that was specifically for gay men, queer men who did crystal meth, there really needed to be something that was that specific. As someone who was an advocate of harm reduction, before it was called harm reduction - the first time I remember hearing about it was called harm minimization, it was coming out of Britain -- and so I Wanted to start something that was specifically designed for gay men and crystal meth and that was explicitly harm reduction from the get go. Hence our motto: you don't have to be clean and sober to come here or even want to be.

Alex: How long has Stonewall been running now for?

Director: Actually next month in May, it will be 8 years since we saw our first client.

Alex: That's awesome! What would you like guys to know about the services that you provide, I know you have some individual counseling and groups?

Director: Yea we have individual counseling, group counseling, we have psychiatrists available if people need anti-depressants, we do a certain amount of case management. This is really an integrated substance abuse, mental health and HIV counseling program, we don't box people in like, "oh, that's about HIV so we can't talk about that." You work with people here with whatever issues they bring...

Alex: So you take a holistic approach?

Director: Yes and then we're available to anyone who wants to come in a talk about crystal in their lives and it doesn't have to be anything in particular. It can be whatever they need, even if they just need some questions to be answered about crystal.

Alex: Let's say somebody is freaking out and has been up for four days, can they just come here, drop in and have somebody talk to them? What would be the process they would have to go through?

Director: Yes they can come in, although the best thing is if they can come between 4-5pm because that is when our official drop-in hours are but if they come at other times then we usually try to see we have someone who can spend some time with them, it just depends on how busy everyone is, but everyday between 4-5pm Monday through Friday here and also between 5:30-7:30pm at Magnet on Wednesday evenings and between 2-5pm on Saturday afternoon's at Magnet is also drop in that we do with Stonewall staff up there. So six days a week we have drop in times...

Alex: People can just come in and just have somebody to talk to...

Director: It can be whatever yea, whatever kind of concerns people have that they would like to talk about.

Alex: What would you say is different about Stonewall's approach, I know you mentioned that it is harm reduction from the get go, is there anything else you would like to point out that is different about the approach that Stonewall takes?

Director: Well I think, a lot of things, one that it is Harm Reduction, two that it is integrated substance abuse, mental health and HIV -- holistic approach to things, three that we have no problem with looking at whether psych meds will help somebody even if they are still using...we're cool J

Alex: Sounds like you just accept people from where they are, no matter where they are from and from many walks of life.

Director: Yea, and we get people from all walks of life; from people who are really having a hard time and whose lives may be falling apart to people who are still have some pretty high power jobs and still keep doing what they are doing.

Alex: What do guys say they get out of coming to Stonewall, have you heard any feedback from clients who have come, anything that stands out that you would want people to know or hear about?

Director: I think what I hear most often is that people really appreciate being able to come here and feel like they are welcomed regardless of where they are coming from and that they are not judged and that we have open arms for everyone. And give people space to figure out what they want to do because often that's...I mean some people come in knowing what they want to do but often people really haven't a clue about they want to do and what they need to do in their lives and that's fine, I don't expect people to have all that figured out.

Alex: It sounds like you guys break down that stigma barrier that a lot of people experience from other services in the city.

Director: Well yea because one of the things that I always tell people is I really don't care whether somebody does drugs, what I care is whether their life is working for them so obviously their crystal use is part of that equation but to me the ultimate goal is about how well their life is working not how much crystal they are doing, how often or how or whatever. At the same time with that said, I am concerned about reducing harm so I will kind of bring up whatever I think like, "maybe you might want to consider X Y or Z because that may be less harmful than the way you are doing it now."

Alex: Right, always presenting as an option.

Director: Oh right, I don't presume to tell anyone what to do with their lives.

Alex: Yea, that's the best way to go.

Director: Because I wouldn't listen to anyone who tells me what to do

Alex: Exactly!

Director: I don't expect anyone to listen to me :-)

Alex: What would you want guys to know about Tweaker.org? Let's say someone who is novel to it wants to know about it, what would you say?

Director: That it has an amazing wealth of information, it has even more than I always know I'm surprised sometimes. That it is just a chuck load of information about crystal and stories and questions and answers and artwork and...you name it and it has all been pulled together from a lot of different sources mostly from people who have experience with crystal meth not entirely but mostly. There's lots of information but there are also funny things, there are sad things, tragic things you know there is everything on there and it's a huge website by this point.

Alex: So it's a great resource...

Director: Yea and you can go on there and just read stuff and get some information but there is also a forum where you can actually participate in an online dialogue with people, it's not a real time dialogue but it's like an electronic bullet board, someone will post a question and then someone will post their answer and that will go back and forth. There's so much different stuff, there is a section where people send in their stories and some of them are funny, some of them are tragic. People also email us questions all the time, not even on the forum so we try to answer everyone's questions in time.

Alex: Ok so there is an opportunity for someone to send a question to the staff here, ok.

Director: Yea, I mean sometimes we are not as prompt as I would like at getting back to people if we have too many questions coming in. There really is a wealth of information there and it's accessible it's written in a way that hopefully people will find easy to read, it's neither scolding, nor chastising or judging, nor is it clinical or written in such scientific language that people are not going to understand what the hell we're talking about.

Alex: So if somebody had no idea about crystal meth and they went onto Tweaker.org, it would be a great place to find out more about crystal meth and its culture surrounding it?

Director: I mean, yea they can go to crystal meth 101 on the website and find out more information.

Alex: If you had 1,000,000 bucks what would like to add to Stonewall services? What would you see as something beneficial?

Director: Probably a 24 hour drop in center and probably a residential treatment center that is harm reduction based that specializes in gay men and crystal meth.

Alex: Is there anything else that you would like to add on for other people who are unaware of what Stonewall is all about?

Director: The other thing is that services are free, we may start doing a sliding scale at some point but services are still free.

Alex: Even to see a psychiatrist?

Director: Yea, I mean if somebody has health insurance then we'll work with that you know? What else....oh! That there is no waiting list at the moment, so people can always come to a drop-in group and see someone right then and there. It used to be that you had to be on a waiting list forever to get assigned a counselor and a group but that is not true anymore.

Alex: So what is the drop-in group about?

Director: There is an orientation group, Tuesday evenings at 6:30-8pm and it's a combination of giving information about the program, some basic information about crystal meth and addiction all that and also just a support thing for people. We originally started it when we had long waiting lists so it was a way we could give people some support even though they were not in the program yet. At this point it's equally about...well often it's with folks who started meeting with an individual counselor and doing the intake paperwork and have not been assigned a group yet so they go to that one until they are assigned to a group. It's also anyone can just drop in; it's not by appointment so...it's every Tuesday evening.

Alex: So it's an orientation of the services and also a support group for people to discuss any issues that they have going on and then from there on you were saying that they are assigned to specific groups?

Director: Well yea, generally the way it usually works is once you start, when you become an official client you meet with an individual counselor and they do the intake paper work and stuff, and then they spend some time meeting with you and getting to know you to figure out which group you fit in, because we have different groups available. So we like to get to know someone first before we figure out which group makes sense for them and then there is also scheduling issues and stuff. Most of our groups, not all of them, but most of our groups are in the evenings so that someone who works a typical 9-5pm job can also be there. That's the other thing, we pretty much function in the afternoon and evenings so either because you can't get up, that's not a problem, or because you work 9-5 that's not a problem either because we are here in the evenings.

Alex: Well thank you very much for your time!

Director: You're welcome.